A name that survives its bearer
Kleos concerns what is heard about someone, often the reputation preserved and renewed in song. In Iliad 9, Achilles describes two possible futures reported by his mother: staying to fight at Troy will cost him his return but bring enduring fame; going home will preserve a long life but forfeit that glory. The speech gives the choice a sharp form without making it an uncomplicated instruction to every listener. Achilles is speaking during a dispute over honor and compensation. The value of being remembered is being measured against a living future that no gift can simply replace.
Source: Iliad · Iliad 9.307–429, especially 410–416
The survivor also wants acknowledgment
Odysseus survives Polyphemus partly by concealing his name, then endangers his return by announcing it. He wants the Cyclops to know who defeated him. The disclosure enables a prayer to Poseidon that specifies the victor’s home and family. Here the desire to attach an achievement to a recognizable person conflicts directly with the strategy that made survival possible. The poem’s narrator and characters also hear songs about the Trojan War, turning experience into a public account. Being celebrated does not guarantee comfort: Odysseus weeps while listening to events for which he himself is already famous.
Source: Odyssey · Odyssey 9.364–414, 502–535; 8.487–534
The dead can question the bargain
When Odysseus meets Achilles among the dead, he congratulates him on the honor he once received and his present standing. Achilles rejects the consolation, saying that even a poor laborer’s life would be preferable to rule among the dead. He then eagerly asks about his father and son. The response does not erase the Iliad’s concern with glory; it places another perspective beside it, from someone who can no longer act in the living world. Read together, the passages make heroic remembrance a genuine value with genuine costs. Family, bodily life, public reputation, and successful return do not always fit into one ideal.
Source: Odyssey · Odyssey 11.465–540
- Period / witness
- Archaic Greek epic, conventionally late eighth or seventh century BCE; Butler translation 1900
- Recording context
- The Odyssey belongs to an ancient Greek epic tradition transmitted through manuscripts and papyri. Its imagined travels cannot establish the historical locations or origins of every episode.
A recording location is not necessarily a story’s origin. Dates of texts, copies, and translations answer different questions.
Explore time & place →Read the sources
These references support the explanation above. Rights and edition notes are recorded individually.
Iliad ↗
Homer (traditional attribution); translated by Samuel Butler · Ancient epic conventionally dated late eighth or seventh century BCE; translation 1898
Edition & rights noteOdyssey ↗
Homer (traditional attribution); translated by Samuel Butler · Ancient Greek epic conventionally dated late eighth or seventh century BCE; translation first published 1900; electronic edition updated 2026-11-02
Edition & rights note